I came across this really good discussion on a yahoo group and thought it'd be an interesting read.
Here it goes :
Here it goes :
Shree Hari
Ram Ram
To respected and eminent Gita Talk members, I seek your guidance in
attaining responses to the following -
1) In all the Vedas, the Puranas, the Upanishads, in Bhagavad Gita,
in Ramayana, and in Ramcharitramanas, in which places is there any
mention of Hindu, Hinduism, Hindu Dharma, or Hindu Sampradaaya
(sect). Is there anything written about them? I am seeking in
these scriptures actual and existing proof or evidence.
2) In those scriptures, where there is specific mention of Dharma
and related matters, in that very scripture, the meaning of the word
Dharma, please provide from the main scripture the specific
quotation/extract, not someone's commentaries or lectures or
exposition. Is that Dharma understood as being "Hindu mat" (hindu
philosophy) or "Hindu Dharma"? If this has been written, in which
chapter is it? What are the supporting documents / background,
please kindly share.
3) That which is authoritatively called Bharatiya Sanatana Dharma,
that versus the Dharma in Gitaji that for which Shri Krishna
Bhagwaan agreed to descend (incarnate) time and again for the
establishment of Dharma, in that the so-called one-ness that is
revealed, regarding that I seek the scriptural evidence (uskaa
shastriya pramaan chahiye). If preceding the Shri Krishna-lila, this
Sanatana Dharma was existing, then was Bhagwaan's words/knowledge
(shabda-gyaan) incomplete that instead of saying Sanatana Dharma,
simple said Dharma?
4) If Gita Talk instead of being for all of mankind, is simply only
for participants from the Hindu sect/doctrine, then please share and
make available the related principles / rules / practices.
If in the language there appears to be some impatience, than please
forgive me, and kindly grace me with your continued generosity.
Vineet Sarvottam
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NEW POSTING
Namaskar
I have gone through the mail "Misunderstanding of Dharma with=20
Hinduism". It is absolutely right the Hinduism has been=20
misunderstood with dharma. It was started by britishers and has been=20
followed by our politicians. Also, this is also true that no one has=20
ever heard the word "HINDU" or "HINDUTVA" in any of our bhartiya=20
granthas. All other related words=20
like "HINDUTVA", "HINDUSTAN", "HINDUSTANI", "HIND", "HINDI" are=20
derived from the word "HINDU". So the question is that from where=20
this word "HINDU" came from?=20
=20
Well, it was started, when Mugals shown their interest in our=20
country "AKHAND BHARAT" (Incl. Present Bharat, Pakistan,=20
Afghanistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Bhutan). They (Mugals)=20
used to call "SINDHU" to the people who lives at the eastern side=20
and the banks of River SINDU. But due to language problem they=20
pronounce is as "HINDU". Therefore according to them (Mugals), all=20
the peoples living in Bharat, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nepal, Sri=20
Lanka, Bangladesh, Bhutan are HINDU. Than how it could be HINDU=20
DHARMA? Dharma is entirely different from HINDU. Hindu means a=20
Sanskriti, the Culture, the Living Style of Bharat.
=20
According to our Vedas, Bhagvat Gita the word "Dharma" denotes the=20
certain important Karmas (Must do work or Duties) of a human being=20
like "Mtri Dharma (Duties & Responsibilities towards your=20
Mother)", "Pitri Dharma (Duties & Responsibilities towards your=20
Father)", "Desh Dharma (Duties & Responsibilities towards your=20
Mother Land)" etc.
=20
Both the words "HINDU" & "DHARMA" have nothing to do with religion=20
or caste. So i request all the readers to spread this fact as much=20
as possible and understand the real meaning of "HINDU" & "DHARMA"
=20
Dhanyavad
Avadhesh Didwania=20
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My dear Vineet Sarvotam,
My respects to all in this forum.....kindly allow me to share=20
what I have heard from others in regard to the word "Hindu". My=20
opening words are not particularly "authoritative" so please kindly=20
forgive me, but what I have to say will certainly be of interest in=20
your discussion.
Firstly, I have heard many times through the years, coming from=20
many sadhaks, is that the word "Hindu" was coined by the British.=20=20
They were unable to properly pronounce the word "Sindhus" in regard=20
to the community/culture of individuals living on the bank of the=20
Sindhus River, so the word "Hindu" came into the lanuauge. On a=20
trip I made to India in the year 2000, I was on a small plane=20
between one large city and another, and somehow or other, (we know=20
the hand of the Lord is everywhere) the seat next to me was=20
occupied by a sannyasi from Hrshikesh. I was conversing with a=20
business man in a suit next to him, and explaiing this exact same=20
thing, about the word Hindu being no where in the Vedas, and the=20
business man turned to the sannyas (who did not speak English) and=20
asked him about this, then turned to me, and said, "He says you are=20
absolutely correrct." I was amazed that the business man had no=20
idea, though he was from India. Little by little, I have had to=20
learn the sad truth that many born in India do not know what is=20
Sanatan Dharma, nor the destructive influences of the British....or=20
how to live by the teachings of Gita. I pray that those who do=20
undeerstand this continually seek ways to spread it to others.
There is a vrery nice section mentioned in a booklet called Sri=20
Hari Nama Maha Mantra....compiled by Srila B.V. Narayana=20
Maharaj.....there the Srimad Bhagavatam is quoted (1.2.8) "dharmah=20
svanusthitah pumsam, visvaksena-kathasu yah.......notpadayed yadi=20
ratim, shrama eva hi kevalam"....."The main purpose of varnasrama-
dharma is to simplify the life of a person who is performing his=20
natural occupational duty, so that he has sufficient time to hear=20
hari-katha. However, if an attraction for hari-katha is not=20
inspired, then all the reilgious activities he performs in=20
accordance with varnasrama-dharma will be so much useless labour."
=20=20=20=20
Respectfully,
=20=20
Mahalaksmi Dasi
----------------------------------------------------------------Dear=20
Shri Vineet Sarvottam,
=20
All your questions are very relevant to appreciate what Dharma is.=20
Is Sanatna Dharma same as Hindu Dharma.
=20
With my limited knowledge I would like to answer your doubts/points=20
as below.
=20
Hindu word is not mentioned in many of our scriptures as for a=20
number of centuries it related to residents of Hindustan i.e. areas=20
EAST of Sindhu river (Indus) pronounced in Persian language as Hindu=20
river. Even the word India is from Indus river as pronounced by=20
Greeks. By 15th century A.D Hindu word acquired some religious=20
connotation as in Adi Grantah Sahib Guru Nanak writes Turki Kaane=20
and Hindu Anne i.e. Muslims were half blind and Hindu totally blind=20
to God's Vedic religion. Guru Nanak tried his best to revive Vedas=20
being himself belonging to BEDI family for whom Vedas were the=20
supreme scriptures.=20
=20
Still the word Hindu was not fully accepted as relating to religion.=20
Even today if a Muslim goes to Egypt he is known as HINDI i.e from=20
Hindustan.=20
=20
For the first time in the 19th century when first Census was taken=20
by British Government in India after 1857, All those religions which=20
originated from out side India like Islam, Christianity, Jews etc=20
their followers were counted separately and all=20
religions/sects/cults which originated from India were clubbed as=20
Hindu religion. Thus this practice is even followed today by=20
government of India. When we say Hindus are over 80% it means=20
Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains, Kabir panthis, Ganpatias, Arya=20
samajists etc.=20=20
=20
The word Dharma first appeared in Rig Veda where it is=20
mentioned "Rtm, Satyam, Dharmmam" Rta- the cosmic laws of social,=20
moral and physical order are eternal truths (satyam) and following=20
these Rta (laws) is Vedic Dharma. Later when due to certain vested=20
interets some influential and poewerful people found difficult to=20
follow Rta, many interpretation of Dharma started like duty, which=20
binds, way of life etc. Only followers of Vedic metaphysics can=20
appreciate the original meaning of Dharma.
=20
Thus Hindu Dharma, Sanatan Dharma (meaning eternal religion of=20
Vedas) would largely mean the same thing. Infact for any individual=20
if Vedas are the supreme scriptures, he/she is a follower of Sanatan=20
Dharma. Since Bhagavad Gita is largely based on Vedic metaphysics,=20
Dharma would mean Sanatan Dharma. Bhagavd Gita clealy says in=20
Chapter 16 that study of Vedas is the supreme virtue. Any=20
interpretation which contardict Vedic interpretation is not valid in=20
Vedic Sanatan Dharma=20
=20
If still some doubts persist I can clarify further with my very=20
limited knowledge.=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=20
with regards,
Prem Sabhlok
-----------------------------------------------------------------=20
Dear Sadak,
At one time only Hinduism existed. So it called Hinduism, Hindu=20
Dharma etc. Later on came Jainism, Buddism, Christanity, and Islam=20
to India when people started travelling by ships. Hindu Dharma=20
purely meant Dharma in common to all living and non living things.
One can see in many histories that God went to rescue his devote=20
irrespective of caste and creed. Even Muslim Kabir Doss was devote=20
of Panduranga. A slaughter Dharma Vajer in=20=20
Maha Bharat is praised of his Pitru Bakthi.
There are Dharmas concerning, women (Sree Dharma), Purusha (Man),=20
Raja, Sanyasi, Etc. Then there is Prayachita Dharma, Bagavatha=20
dharma, Deva Dharma, Surya Dharma, Pancha Bootha Dharma so on. These=20
Dharmas are there in perfect scripts. All Dharmas=20
are taken care by 33 crore demi gods, like Vayu, Agni, Indra etc.
There is one called Yuga Dharma. That is the earth and it` s planets=20
have Chatur yuga. Namely Satya Yuga, Thretha Yuga, Dwapara Yuga and=20
Kali yuga. Longest is Satya Yuga. Shortest is Kali yuga around 14300=20
years. That is why Bramaji is depicted with 4 heads representing 4=20
yugas. This is also said in Old testament of Christanity as the=20
world is square.=20
In Geetha Bagavan says everything rest only on Dharma. Dharma means=20
the rightfulness.
In Ramayan scores of dharmas are said. Even drinking water by left=20
hand is Adharma. Dharma is clearly said about food. Dharma is said=20
about how man from morning to evening should behave related to=20
environment. PLEASE NOTE ALL THESE DHARMAS ARE FOR NOT ONLY FOR=20
HINDUS, BUT FOR SOCIETY AT LARGE.
Bagavan Sri Krishna said that HE will incarnate from time to time,=20
means that HE comes to protect the people who follow all these=20
Dharmas. Such people are called Dharmathumas. HE does not come for=20
people who are not rightious. We can see mass of humans killed for=20
verious reasons. But if ONE dharmathuma is attacked, Bagavan=20
response is immediate. In important scripts it said that in the=20
event of abuses of God, God remains silent. But in the event of very=20
small neglect/discomfort caused to HIS devote, God respondes at once.
To give evidence from scripts/upanashid/puranas it is lengthy.=20
Besides Bagavan says these are to be taught to a person who is=20
consistant in seeking truth able to practice basic teachings of=20
Sanathana Dharma.=20=20=20=20
To learn incomplete a small science of human body MBBS one needs 5=20
years. To learn these Dharmas one needs contiuous effort day in and=20
day out.
Jai Sri Krishna
baiya sathyanarayan=20
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PRIOR POSTING
Gita is for people of all religions. That is why there is no mention
of Hindu religion. Indians were called Hindus by invaders because of
the Indus river and our faith was given the name. Hinduism is a way
of life rather than a religion and there is nothing in the Gita
which does not apply to people of other religions.
Hari Shanker Deo
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"Dhritih kshama damo asteyam shaucham-indriya nigrahah
Dhi vidya satyam-akrodho dashakam dharma lakshanam" (Manu Smriti,
Ch.VI-92)
(1) Dhriti =96 Patience, (2) Kshama =96 Forgiveness, (3) Damah =96 Self
Control, (4) Asteya =96 Not Stealing, (5) Shaucha =96 Purity, (6)
Indriya Nigraha =96 Sense Control, (7) Dhi =96 Intellect, (8) Vidya =96
Learning/Knowledge, (9) Satya =96 Truth, (10) Akrodha =96 Absence of
Anger.
this shows that dharma is secular as there is no reference to
personal belief, god, satan heaven , hell, angels etc...
Dharma is called Dao in chinese and therefore Daoism is subsciption
to this idea. one of the 3 texts of this tradition is 'Tao Te ching'
Its opening line is 'the Dao that can be named is not the dao', and
this falls in line with our thinking.
Compare this to christian islamic judaic views that god has only one
name jehova, allah, etc..
patanjali in chapter 3 says chose your favourite deity, this also
means that god is relegated to do whatever suits you, its really not
that important.
therefore hinduism or dharma is not a religion in the judaic club,
gang, sense. and traditionally hindus have said that it is not a
religion but a 'way of life'.
personally i have never subscribed to the way of life buisness
because then surely islam is an absolute 'way of life'. however in
context of the above this can be understood as something other than
belief, faith, etc...
sanatana dharma has also been translated as the perennial philosophy
by Aldous huxley, see his book of the same name and take a look at
his novel, Island.
there is only one dharma and all the rest are panths, paths.
Ravi Bakhsi
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The Word Hinduism was derived from the Indus civilisation. About
2,000 years ago when the Greeks sailed up the Indus River, they were
surprised to find a civilisation that existed and they refer to them
as the Indus. Later this was changed to Hindus.
Mangal Deolal